(fork) Re: proposed report UI improvements

[The Next Wave]

I'm not sure if this is the kind of feedback you are looking for- but, I've been working hard at trying to make CiviCRM dance for me- and it's a mighty steep learning curve- thanks to what I consider some basic UX issues-

It's been a few years since you deployed CiviCampaign- and as a pretty saavy person, I'm finding a recurring issue within CiviCRM- and it comes down to taxonomy- and terminology.

You have 3 types of campaigns- yet, you don't clearly define the differences.

Why is there a campaign at all? Sounds like a stupid question- but, isn't it an overall container for a bunch of activities? Why do you provide three? Why not 6? Or better yet- none, since it's just a naming convention as far as I can tell.

As to activities that fall under a "Campaign"- some are different modules- ie. CiviContribute, CiviEvent, CiviMailing etc.

Which means that Campaign is at a "higher level" than the other activities- since it's all encompassing.

Under campaign- you have: Survey, canvass, petition, Walk lists, phone banks, GOTV yet- again- you don't really define these anywhere. What is the difference between a survey, canvas, walk list?
This is absolutely making it impossible to figure out what to do as an end user.

A Walk list to me- is a list of homes separated by street, with house numbers in order, split even/odd. You know where you are going from a pre-existing data set.

A canvass- is when you go out and randomly run into people somewhere and ask questions. You would probably have to gather more information than a walk list- since you don't already have existing data- or you'd have to be able to quickly look someone up (and freak them out that you know that much about them).

A survey- is something you do while using a walk list- to ask questions. It could also be what you do on a canvas or with a phone bank. It's  a set of questions, with either specific answers- or open ended data collection.

A petition- is someone signing a statement of support. Since most boards of elections want you to verify the voter- you may just be checking a box that person X has signed and is more than likely a good signature.

NONE OF THIS IS CLEAR IN THE DOCUMENTATION, HELP, OR WORKFLOW- making it very hard to make this work.

I'm also finding that the menus are changing- and the documentation isn't up to date- making it even more difficult.

[The Next Wave]

Adding on-
What is an "Activity"- when I'm in the process of setting up a new survey or petition-
there is a drop down of "Activity types"- walk list, canvas etc-
yet- there is no "Create activity"option- except under contacts- where there is a "New Activity" which seems to be unrelated to walk list canvas, etc.

You can't use the same word- for different things!!!!
Am I totally screwing up by assuming "Campaign" is arbitrary?
Do I have to make a campaign for a walk list- then assign profiles and activities?

I'm sorry if I'm reasoning my way through this publicly- but, definitions of terms are essential to an effective user experience.

Feedback please?

[petednz]

Next Wave - I think this is forking from what Brian was originally proposing which was to do with the interface available to configure Reports.
Perhaps take your comments on to their own thread?

[Michael McAndrew]

Hello Next Wave!

You have 3 types of campaigns- yet, you don't clearly define the differences.
Why is there a campaign at all? Sounds like a stupid question- but, isn't it an overall container for a bunch of activities? Why do you provide three? Why not 6? Or better yet- none, since it's just a naming convention as far as I can tell.

Three three out of the box campaign types are suggestions that we think are useful to get you started (a bit like contribution types or event types).  None of the campaign types are reserved so you can delete them and add new ones as you like.

As to activities that fall under a "Campaign"- some are different modules- ie. CiviContribute, CiviEvent, CiviMailing etc.
Which means that Campaign is at a "higher level" than the other activities- since it's all encompassing.

Correct, IMO.

Under campaign- you have: Survey, canvass, petition, Walk lists, phone banks, GOTV yet- again- you don't really define these anywhere. What is the difference between a survey, canvas, walk list?
This is absolutely making it impossible to figure out what to do as an end user.

Have you looked here: http://book.civicrm.org/user?  Is this stuff explained there?

NONE OF THIS IS CLEAR IN THE DOCUMENTATION, HELP, OR WORKFLOW- making it very hard to make this work.

One thing you could do is ask specific questions about what you are trying to acheive and we can try and help you achieve those things

What is an "Activity"- when I'm in the process of setting up a new survey or petition-

It is the record in CiviCRM that records that represents survey petition, when it was completed, the status, etc.

there is a drop down of "Activity types"- walk list, canvas etc-
yet- there is no "Create activity"option- except under contacts- where there is a "New Activity" which seems to be unrelated to walk list canvas, etc.

Filling in the petition / completing the survey creates that activity.

You can't use the same word- for different things!!!!

Underneath, they are the same thing .  In some cases it helps to see all the activities, petitions, events, etc. that a contact has.

Am I totally screwing up by assuming "Campaign" is arbitrary?

I don't think so.

Do I have to make a campaign for a walk list- then assign profiles and activities?

You do need to create a campaign for each of your surveys and petions to live under - does that answer your question?

I'm sorry if I'm reasoning my way through this publicly- but, definitions of terms are essential to an effective user experience.

That is not a problem - the forums are here for people to reason their way through things publicly.

I would suggest a few things.

* be specific about the background and business goals you are trying to acheive since it makes it much easier for people to help you
* if things aren't clear in the documentation, please point out the places where they aren't clear.
* please improve the documentation where it isn't clear - that will help others who are going through what you are going through now (and also help you understand how things work) http://civicrm.org/participate/documentation

It might make sense to start another thread for this in the using CiviCampaign forum http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/board,60.0.html where more people who like to help people use CiviCampaign hang out.

Michael

[Eileen]

Hi,

I split this discussion off from the Report UI topic as I think Pete is right that it is a fork

[The Next Wave]

Thanks for the fork- and for the explanations.
From a UI standpoint- we have a slight problem- including "suggestions" for kinds of things- built in- is dicey. Now- since many of these things also link to pre-written report functions- they actually need to be in there- but, shouldn't populate as part of the initial install.
I've been updating the FOSS manual- as I've found issues-
Is it the default manual? Why are there more than one? Having more than one means you have potential duplication- and update issues.
I'm starting to figure out creating walk lists-
however, there is a field for even/odd addresses- and we're unable to figure out how that populates.

Civi comes with certain mandatory fields- these should be clearly different from optional ones-
and everything should be hinted in the interface, so as to not make someone have to look everything up.

The email process for setting up a mass mailing is pretty good at doing all of this - the walk list/survey- etc- not so good.

[Michael McAndrew]

Is it the default manual? Why are there more than one? Having more than one means you have potential duplication- and update issues.

can you point to the more than one manuals? i can then let you know

[The Next Wave]

FOSS Manual, wiki, that's two manuals.
Format isn't that important- it's two places to be confused instead of one.

[Michael McAndrew]

Hey there,

Have a look at this page https://civicrm.org/participate/documentation which explains how the relate.

Would be great if you wanted to help us out along the way to a single comprehensive source of documentation - that is our goal but we do need more help getting there.

Let me know if you want some help getting started...