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Author Topic: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership  (Read 1659 times)

jobewan

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New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 13, 2009, 11:26:50 am
Hello,

I am not using the renewal membership function, for reasons that may not be necessary to explore at this juncture.

Instead, renewing members purchase another new membership (from CiviContribute's viewpoint), which I have labeled in Drupal as "Renewing".

When the existing member makes a new contribution, the existing membership is extended, instead of a new (or renewing for that matter) membership being created.

Is this normal, or have I misconfigured, etc?

Best,

-Joe

Dave Greenberg

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 13, 2009, 05:10:57 pm
Joe - If someone submits a contribution with a membership payment, AND we find a match to an existing contact (using the STRICT dupe matching rule) - then we check if they already have a membership OF THAT TYPE - and if so we renew (extend) that membership. However, this doesn't seem to match the behavior you're seeing if indeed the "Renewing" membership type is a completely different membership type (under Administer >> CiviMember >> Membership Types).

That said, the approach you're using might fail in any case on a second renewal (since then they would be purchasing Renewing membership again).
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jobewan

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 14, 2009, 06:24:00 am
Thank you for the clarification, Dave.

For an accurate accounting to take place in my circumstance, a new contribution must represent a new membership.  Otherwise, the pertinence of setting the membership intervals to "annual" (which is how mine are set) is lost, if the system can override this [presumably and otherwise] hard-coded setting.

Is there any circumstance in which I can set up my membership/contribution system so that discrete contributions result in the addition of discrete additional memberships that remain within the configured parameters?

Best - I hope it is clear just how much I appreciate this resource, and the folks provided it.

-Joe

Dave Greenberg

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 16, 2009, 10:56:39 am
CiviCRM does keep log the renewal / payment process in the database in a way that "may" help with your accounting requirements.

For membership-related contribution (whether new membership or renewal):
- a membership record is created (or updated)
- a contribution record is created
- a membership_payment record is created (join table links the contribution to the membership)
- a membership_log record is created which records the newly applied membership's  date range (start and end dates) and status

Also, we retain a membership.join_date which stores the original date they joined (and is not updated by renewals UNLESS the membership has expired).

So you may want to investigate whether mining this data from the DB can give you the accounting references you need. Otherwise, you would need to modify the code to prevent the renewal behavior.
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jobewan

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 17, 2009, 09:24:50 am
Thank you Dave for the clear and concise explanation.  Sure do appreciate it.

I don't understand then why the administrator is given the 'power' to set the limits on membership terms, if the system is simply going to override it under all possible given conditions?  This seems to me to be non sequiter.

It also violates the basic tenet of annual subscriptions under either guise of new or renewing; a new membership is a new membership and as such a discrete logical object, not a modification of an existing logical object.  Same with renewing I would think.  While it may follow a logical programming flow, it does not follow the logical flow of the business case it is designed to support.  Which one should 'trump' the other? (is I guess what I would ask)

Is this the last word on the matter from a development perspective Dave?  If so, then I will have to turn my attentions to having the code mod'ed as you suggest.

Dave Greenberg

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 18, 2009, 09:36:26 pm
I do hope we're communicating clearly enough on this because I don't recall having anyone from the other membership-based orgs that are using CiviMember describe a similar "disconnect" between the behavior and the "business case it is designed to support".

That said, if the behavior doesn't fit your model, then I guess it makes sense to look at modifying the code.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 09:38:59 pm by Dave Greenberg »
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petednz

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 18, 2009, 10:08:53 pm
For our clients, they want to have a membership that continues from year to year, so each REnewal is exactly that, it renews the existing membership, so the system as built works.
This means it is easy to find eg members who have been members for 3+years since that is therefore the period between the 'start' and the 'end'

WHen there is a break of membership, ie someone does not renew, then they create a new membership when the join again.

I was curious about the statement 'which I have labeled in Drupal as "Renewing".' just in case some wires are being crossed here.
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jobewan

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Re: New Contribution Modifies Existing Membership Instead of Creating New Membership
November 19, 2009, 07:34:16 am
Thanks fellas (DaveG and peterd):

It does seem like the splitting of hairs I suppose.  Also, it does seem to be a matter of perspective.  The more I think about your [collective] comments, the more I could live with the membership renewal process as it stands.  Whether or not I can make that same case to my customer(s) is another story.   I guess we'll see.  (O;

Thanks a whole lot for everything,

-Joe
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