Author Topic: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount (Read 1738 times)

pkeogan · August 18, 2010, 06:58:45 pm

We'll be starting a development effort in a few days to allow our client to update future pledge installments and recalculate the total pledge amount. Has anyone tackled this? Is this something that would be interesting to include in Civi base product?

Business scenario: Person makes a pledge payment for $50 and and the pledge installment amount is $40. The back end user should be able to update the current (pending) pledge installment to $50 and then decrease one or more subsequent installments and/or recalculate the total pledge amount.

FYI: This capability is standard in many commercial products and we hate when commercial poducts have better functionality then Civi!

Dave Greenberg · August 18, 2010, 10:58:15 pm

Paul - Pogstone has stepped up and sponsored an improvement which we have on the queue for 3.2.3 release which addresses this issue (although possibly not exactly as you were planning on doing).

Please review the spec for item 1 on this wiki page:

http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRM/Sponsored+CiviPledge+Enhancements
http://issues.civicrm.org/jira/browse/CRM-6663

... and then comment there (or here) on whether the approach will meet your clients' needs or not. If your requirements are different - let's discuss if it's possible to merge them in etc. before you start on something parallel / duplicative. If the spec meets your requirements, perhaps your team can take on some related pledge improvements :-)

pkeogan · August 19, 2010, 04:39:23 am

Thanks for pointing me to this new feature.

We are interested in the first part.

However, we do not want any automated adjustments. Each organization will have different rules for adjustment, so my strong preference would be to not have any auto adjustments or many organizations will be attempting to remove it.

Could you make the auto adjustment a parameter that can be turned on/off? This would also allow other common adjustment rules to be incorporated (say adjustment parm = 0 mean no adjustment, =1 means the specific adjustment you're doing, = 2 means adjust the last payment =3 means another adjustment type, etc.

I assume that any adjustments to the pledge installment would also adjust the total pledge? That is a must.

We are also working through a refund process for various types of contributions, but, I don;t have that totally flushed out yet

Dave Greenberg · August 19, 2010, 12:51:50 pm

The proposal to parameterize the "adjustments" process is not currently in scope for the project. I don't actually think "no adjustment" is a true option - since that would leave the total amount stored in the pledge record out of synch with the amounts reflected in the pledge payment records - so for that option we'd have to reduce or increase the total pledge amount. The current spec adjusts the next pledge payment appropriately so that the final pledge amount is still met (and therefore does not require adjustment to the pledge amount except for the case of a final over payment).

We could potentially look at making the adjustment behavior "hookable" - so that developers could implement alternative rules. Adding a built-in parameter with 'N' behaviors defined is probably not do-able - especially within the 3.2.x timeframe - since there's no place in the current schema to store such a parameter. We generally avoid schema changes within point release. Also, there is no "Administer CiviPledge" UI where admin's could manage this.

I'll discuss the hook idea with the development team and see if that's do-able within the current hours allocated - or if we'd need additional resources from your side.

SarahG (FountainTribe) · August 19, 2010, 04:08:12 pm

Paul's request that an overpayment ( such as a check for $140 is received when only $100 is expected ) not impact any other scheduled payment, yet increase the total pledge obligation will not meet my project's requirement. However, it would be great in the long term to ask the user when they enter such an amount ( either over or under the expected amount) what they want to happen.

On the "Record Payment" pledge-related screen, you could add a radio button of choices ( either on the same screen, or an Ajaxy dialog ) asking what should be done: a) Adjust either the next or any another pending pledge payment. b) Increase the total pledge obligation

As as part of my sponsored work, b is already happening in the case that someone overpays the last scheduled payment.

SarahG (FountainTribe) · August 19, 2010, 04:14:23 pm

I only think the default behavior for over/under payments should be in the admin area. A single bookkeeper may still need to make different choices for different checks, even within the same day. So the UI should give the appropriate flexibility.

pkeogan · August 19, 2010, 05:14:55 pm

Thanks for the feedback and conversations. This is very helpful and productive.

I agree that if "no automated adjustment to a second installment" is implemented the total pledge amount would need to be adjusted. I also agree that in most cases users will want to keep the total pledge amount unchanged.

However, I also think having one adjustment scenario built into the the base product will not be as helpful as the "no automated adjustment to a second installment". The clients that I work with would prefer to have the same flexible they currently have in their commercial product. The commercial product allows them to make no adjustments (and change the total pledge amount), change the next installment, change the last installment or any combination. The "no automated adjustment to a second installment" gives them that flexibility.

I believe the better commercial products prefer not specifying an adjustment because their clients have many scenarios and, instead of trying to develop multiple scenarios to fit most of their client needs, they decided to give their clients the flexibility make their own adjustments.

Best Wishes,

T

pkeogan · August 22, 2010, 11:58:07 am

Just to close this issue.... the improved functionality referenced before:

http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRM/Sponsored+CiviPledge+Enhancements
http://issues.civicrm.org/jira/browse/CRM-6663

has been modified to include the ability to update a pledge installmentment without requiring an auto adjustment to the next pledge and enabling the total pledge amount to be modified.

Thanks to the CiviCore team for working this through!

ken · September 08, 2010, 12:04:43 am

Looks like a useful enhancement, so thanks guys.

Does this enhancement affect imports of pledges? (At the moment, a contribution can be imported and marked as a payment for a pledge.)

I'm assuming not, as the import would need to pass in a column that explains how the over/under payment should be handled.

Thanks,
Ken

Yashodha Chaku · September 08, 2010, 01:25:50 am

Quote

I'm assuming not, as the import would need to pass in a column that explains how the over/under payment should be handled.

Right. Adjustments for over/under payments are NOT handled in import.
While importing we just update the actual (paid) amount into the pledge payment.

-Yashodha

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Author Topic: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount (Read 1738 times)

pkeogan

Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

Dave Greenberg

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

pkeogan

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

Dave Greenberg

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

SarahG (FountainTribe)

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

SarahG (FountainTribe)

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

pkeogan

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

pkeogan

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

ken

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount

Yashodha Chaku

Re: Editing pledge installments and the total pledge amount