Author Topic: Is CiviCRM Bloatware? (Read 5473 times)

patachon · April 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am

I had a look at the Event Module.

While I like many of the features, I wondered why it's necessary to go through so many screens both to create one AND to register for one? Even in cases where there is no fee?

I think the model of one-page event creation like at Upcoming.org, Craigslist.org, Democrats.org, My.BarackObama.com, etc. -- and ONE-Button registration (!!!) is more likely to attract participants.

When I wrote the same remarks on Lobo's Blog, the response I got was:
"Our model was more of an org having a few events in a month/year rather than lots of events..." http://civicrm.org/node/170

Which means to me, we built it with the intention of it not being used that often...

I wonder why such a heavy-handed approach was taken. CiviCRM already is the most problematic Module I use, bringing my site to a screeching halt due to Memory Problems on a regular basis.

Is there no way to be more streamlined -- no way to take better advantage of Drupal's Modular approach?

geilhufe · April 22, 2007, 09:26:04 am

There was a clear design decision in CiviCRM to focus on the basic architecture and functionality required to accomplish the primary tasks in the civic sector (which I totally agree was the right decision). The result, IMHO, is an excellent platform for creating one page event creation like you see on end-user/ usability focused sites.

One of the reasons you see so much uptake on CiviCRM among consultants and programmers is because of its flexibility and power. At CivicSpace, we are finding that we still have a long way to go (1+ years of development) before we will be able to comfortably deliver an excellent user experience on top of CiviCRM. As you note, the one page event creation is not there and it takes a fair amount of software development to deliver it using CiviCRM.

In the Drupal world, CiviCRM should not be considered a module. It should be considered a full CRM sub-system installed alongside Drupal and integrated with it. There are already a number of efforts to build CCK/views based CRM solutions in Drupal that might better meet your needs since they are designed to do far less.

Michał Mach · April 22, 2007, 11:25:00 am

Hiya,

Quote from: patachon on April 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am

I think the model of one-page event creation like at Upcoming.org, Craigslist.org, Democrats.org, My.BarackObama.com, etc. -- and ONE-Button registration (!!!) is more likely to attract participants.

I'm not very into US elections (living in Europe), but it's always good to learn from interesting examples... So I tried My.BarackObama.com and from what I saw, there is no problem with assembling the same kind of functionality with Drupal/CiviCRM... It will require quite some hacking and customisations, that's true, but I don't think Obama folks got this functionality out of the box as well.

And, well - "one button registration" is a little bit of a stretch in my opinion. :-) If you are talking about user registering (quite a few fields to fill in), logging in and after all that being able to register for an event with one click, than yeah - again, I can imagine how to do it with Drupal & CiviCRM.

If you would like to get into this deeper, let me know, I'll gladly pass my ideas to you.

Quote from: patachon on April 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am

I wonder why such a heavy-handed approach was taken. CiviCRM already is the most problematic Module I use, bringing my site to a screeching halt due to Memory Problems on a regular basis.

How large is your install? (How many records, how many custom fields, what functionality is being used, etc?)

Donald Lobo · April 22, 2007, 01:28:09 pm

Patachon:

Wow, a controversial topic raised in the early days of the forum

Quote from: patachon on April 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am

While I like many of the features, I wondered why it's necessary to go through so many screens both to create one AND to register for one? Even in cases where there is no fee?

I think the model of one-page event creation like at Upcoming.org, Craigslist.org, Democrats.org, My.BarackObama.com, etc. -- and ONE-Button registration (!!!) is more likely to attract participants.

When I wrote the same remarks on Lobo's Blog, the response I got was:
"Our model was more of an org having a few events in a month/year rather than lots of events..." http://civicrm.org/node/170

We went thru a normal ideas / thoughts / spec process with CiviEvent as we do with every other component. None of our users (or the ones who provided feedback) mentioned the need for a one page event registration. They fit into the model which we had in our mind (of organizing medium-large scale paid events)

I suspect if folks had raised the issue of having a simplied one page event registration page, we probably would have considered and built it

Quote from: patachon on April 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am

I wonder why such a heavy-handed approach was taken. CiviCRM already is the most problematic Module I use, bringing my site to a screeching halt due to Memory Problems on a regular basis.

Is there no way to be more streamlined -- no way to take better advantage of Drupal's Modular approach?

I agree that CiviCRM is a heavy weight module. We are focusing on reducing the memory requirements a bit (and making good progress in every release). I dont think our main goal is to get CiviCRM to run efficiently on all the cheap hosting solutions. As with every software solution there is a tradeoff between efficiency / productivity / architecture etc.

If you do have any specific ideas on how to make CiviCRM more efficient please chat with us on IRC. If you want to contribute to making it more efficient, do contact us. We have a ton of things we can do, but need folks to step up and help out

lobo

patachon · April 22, 2007, 05:27:03 pm

Quote from: geilhufe on April 22, 2007, 09:26:04 am

There was a clear design decision in CiviCRM to focus on the basic architecture and functionality required to accomplish the primary tasks in the civic sector (which I totally agree was the right decision). The result, IMHO, is an excellent platform for creating one page event creation like you see on end-user/ usability focused sites.

That's fine but I'm sure your audience would still like an efficient way to create and register for events. If you're going towards a more streamlined UI -- so much the better.

patachon · April 22, 2007, 05:31:17 pm

Quote from: Michał Mach on April 22, 2007, 11:25:00 am

I'm not very into US elections (living in Europe), but it's always good to learn from interesting examples... So I tried My.BarackObama.com and from what I saw, there is no problem with assembling the same kind of functionality with Drupal/CiviCRM... It will require quite some hacking and customisations, that's true, but I don't think Obama folks got this functionality out of the box as well.

They grabbed it from Democrats.org -- same developers.

Quote from: Michał Mach on April 22, 2007, 11:25:00 am

And, well - "one button registration" is a little bit of a stretch in my opinion. :-) If you are talking about user registering (quite a few fields to fill in), logging in and after all that being able to register for an event with one click, than yeah - again, I can imagine how to do it with Drupal & CiviCRM.

Exactly, once registration is accomplish, only one click to register for an event. This is the model for the sites I mentioned previously.

patachon · April 22, 2007, 05:38:41 pm

Quote from: Donald Lobo on April 22, 2007, 01:28:09 pm

We went thru a normal ideas / thoughts / spec process with CiviEvent as we do with every other component. None of our users (or the ones who provided feedback) mentioned the need for a one page event registration. They fit into the model which we had in our mind (of organizing medium-large scale paid events)

I suspect if folks had raised the issue of having a simplied one page event registration page, we probably would have considered and built it

You mean when developing such a module you don't look around and see how it's done elsewhere --thereby taking advantage of good examples?

Quote from: Donald Lobo on April 22, 2007, 01:28:09 pm

I agree that CiviCRM is a heavy weight module. We are focusing on reducing the memory requirements a bit (and making good progress in every release). I dont think our main goal is to get CiviCRM to run efficiently on all the cheap hosting solutions. As with every software solution there is a tradeoff between efficiency / productivity / architecture etc.

My Host is Pair.com -- there's nothing "cheap" about them.

Donald Lobo · April 22, 2007, 06:07:36 pm

Leo:

Thanx for your comments and feedback. We'll take them into account for the next release of CiviEvent. If you want to get more detailed please consider adding detailed comments and description on our wiki page at: http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRM/CiviCRM+v1.8

As an open source project, we do welcome and appreciate your contribution in the form of detailed specifications, bug reports, code and/or documentation. Its always good to have folks who look at the issue with a different perspective

lobo

Thom K · April 23, 2007, 02:55:32 pm

Quote from: patachon on April 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am

While I like many of the features, I wondered why it's necessary to go through so many screens both to create one AND to register for one? Even in cases where there is no fee?

One of the things about Open Source is that the specifications will only be as useful as the people who participate in making them need them to be. It's all so chicken and eggish. I know I was guilty of assuming that CiviEvent would have many of the features that you mentioned, and because of that assumption I didn't spend any time looking or posting at the specifications. That said, it's still very usable and as people use it there well be tricks and tips learned that people can share to make it easier to use.

I've found one of the best ways to speed up event creation if you're having a lot of events is to create an event template for a given type of event like house parties. Then when you want to add a house party, you copy that event and about the only thing you need to update is the title and location of the event.

I feel that CiviEvent is a solid first step in implementing this functionality in CiviCRM. I can only dream, and add to the specs, about where the next release will take it:-)

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Author Topic: Is CiviCRM Bloatware? (Read 5473 times)

patachon

Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

geilhufe

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

Michał Mach

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

Donald Lobo

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

patachon

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

patachon

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

patachon

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

Donald Lobo

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?

Thom K

Re: Is CiviCRM Bloatware?