Author Topic: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail (Read 2655 times)

CiviTeacher.com · January 03, 2011, 09:22:45 pm

I have CiviMail configured to send from the info@ address (the FROM address) at my domain and the return channel setup to parse the bounce@ email box which is the REPLY-TO address. This works great for sending mail and parsing automated responses.

Unfortunately, several times per bulk email, novice users feel the need to respond to our bulk mail by clicking the REPLY button and writing back to us. Of course, this is not appropriate from my standpoint, but they do it nonetheless.

Occasionally users replying to bulk mail write important information or request support or offer to donate, and we often don't get these emails because these manual replies go to the VERP address bounce+2l3ka98adfsf29833i@ (or whatever) and are parsed along with 'undeliverable' and 'mailbox full' auto-replies.

What is a best practice for manual replies to CiviCRM bulk mail?

Can an auto-reply bounce be directed to a different email than a manual reply?

(PS. I really hope this is not a stupid question.)

Piotr Szotkowski · January 04, 2011, 07:13:47 am

Quote from: Stoob on January 03, 2011, 09:22:45 pm

Can an auto-reply bounce be directed to a different email than a manual reply?

You’ll love this: yes and no.

Quote

(PS. I really hope this is not a stupid question.)

Not at all! The catch is that there are two ‘from’ addresses – one is the From: header inside the email message (next to Date:, Subject: and Reply-To:), the other is the MAIL FROM SMTP envelope header, one level above (or below, if you consider SMTP to be the plumbing…) the actual email message.

‘Regular’ replies (as in – actual people replying to an email) reply to the Reply-To: header or, if it’s missing, to the From: header. The same route is taken by any sorts of delayed bounces – in situations where the email is initially (on the SMTP level) accepted by the destination server, but later it decides it needs to bounce it (or to let you know about some – like transient/temporary – delivery problems).

Contrary to the above, some (most?) of immediate bounces (no such recipient, etc.) happen right there on the SMTP level, with the destination server not even looking into the message (so not even seeing the From: and Reply-To: headers – often even before the actual email message is transmitted!), based solely on the SMTP envelope headers. In cases when there‘s ‘no such account’, there’s no point in transmitting the actual email message – the receiving server can bounce the delivery attempt right when it learns where it’s supposed to go. Such bounces would go to the MAIL FROM envelope header.

Now, the question is what the outgoing SMTP server (which sets the SMTP envelope headers) will use for the MAIL FROM envelope header. I think it usually uses whatever’s in the From: and/or Reply-To: message headers, and from a quick grepping of CiviCRM sources I don’t think we do any explicit attempts at setting the SMTP envelope headers in any way (at least partly because it might end up being a source of hard-to-track issues – with SMTP servers which override any explicitly-set envelope headers anyway, for example).

What you can do is checking whether the delivery method you use for CiviMail mailings can override SMTP envelope headers, try setting MAIL FROM to something specific and then seeing where immediate and delayed bounces end up being delivered.

Piotr Szotkowski · January 05, 2011, 06:56:18 am

Quote from: Piotr Szotkowski on January 04, 2011, 07:13:47 am

Now, the question is what the outgoing SMTP server (which sets the SMTP envelope headers) will use for the MAIL FROM envelope header. I think it usually uses whatever’s in the From: and/or Reply-To: message headers […]

No, sorry, I mixed this up: it actually uses whatever’s in the Return-Path: header (which we set to be the bounce address).

So, to answer your question: if you don’t want to manage replies with CiviCRM, you can make CiviMail use only the Return-Path: header and let recipients reply to the From: address; Reply-To: will be set only if you check the checkbox that tells CiviMail to manage replies for you.

CiviTeacher.com · January 06, 2011, 03:52:46 pm

Thank you very much for the clear answer.

xavier · January 06, 2011, 06:59:50 pm

Quote from: Piotr Szotkowski on January 04, 2011, 07:13:47 am

Now, the question is what the outgoing SMTP server (which sets the SMTP envelope headers) will use for the MAIL FROM envelope header. I think it usually uses whatever’s in the From: and/or Reply-To: message headers, and from a quick grepping of CiviCRM sources I don’t think we do any explicit attempts at setting the SMTP envelope headers in any way (at least partly because it might end up being a source of hard-to-track issues – with SMTP servers which override any explicitly-set envelope headers anyway, for example).

What you can do is checking whether the delivery method you use for CiviMail mailings can override SMTP envelope headers, try setting MAIL FROM to something specific and then seeing where immediate and delayed bounces end up being delivered.

At least with the mail() and sendmail, it explicitly sets to the VERP address defined for the bounce. (the -e param if I recall properly). Not sure about the the smtp server method, but should set it as well somehow.

There isn't an option (yet?) to set a different FROM in the envelope (or to use the from), so in order to have civimail working you have to have a server than can handle either catchall or the + notation. (john+xxxx@doe.com is an alias john@doe.com). This works with all "modern" email servers (that are less than 10 years old), with the notable exception of...wait for it... MS exchange.

X+

CiviTeacher.com · January 07, 2011, 09:47:40 am

Quote from: xavier on January 06, 2011, 06:59:50 pm

with the notable exception of...wait for it... MS exchange.

shocking!

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Author Topic: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail (Read 2655 times)

CiviTeacher.com

Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail

Piotr Szotkowski

Re: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail

Piotr Szotkowski

Re: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail

CiviTeacher.com

Re: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail

xavier

Re: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail

CiviTeacher.com

Re: Best practice for from and reply-to emails with CiviMail