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Author Topic: Is Civicrm owned commercially or by a non-profit?  (Read 1929 times)

peterp

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Is Civicrm owned commercially or by a non-profit?
February 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
My client's organization is very interested in using civicrm but will require significant enhancements / investments.  They are prepared to fund these and contribute them back to the community but concerned about the ownership of the source code. Would you please help clarify some issues for me:

1. In the About section, there is mention of the 501c3 non-profit Social Source Foundation.  Apparently the copyright ownership is owned by David Greenberg as CiviCRM LLC. Can you please confirm this is accurate? What is the role of the Social Source Foundation?

2. I found a discussion on your site http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/topic,12958.msg55651.html#msg55651 which indicates an intention to migrate to the license to a non-profit entity.  Has such migration taken place? If not, is it planned?

3. Have you provided any exceptions to the current AGPL such as allowing a company to use the software without distributing source code? Do you disclose any commercial arrangements involving civicrm?

Apologies if these issues are covered elsewhere, but clearly a commercial ownership of the civicrm copyright introduces uncertainty in its long term viability and the possibility, albeit remote, of commercially exploiting the contributions of community contributions.

Regards,
Peter Palin

xavier

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Re: Is Civicrm owned commercially or by a non-profit?
February 24, 2011, 12:41:09 am
Quote from: peterp on February 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
My client's organization is very interested in using civicrm but will require significant enhancements / investments.  They are prepared to fund these and contribute them back to the community but concerned about the ownership of the source code. Would you please help clarify some issues for me:

Cool, what features are they missing ?

Quote from: peterp on February 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm

3. Have you provided any exceptions to the current AGPL such as allowing a company to use the software without distributing source code? Do you disclose any commercial arrangements involving civicrm?

Apologies if these issues are covered elsewhere, but clearly a commercial ownership of the civicrm copyright introduces uncertainty in its long term viability and the possibility, albeit remote, of commercially exploiting the contributions of community contributions.


For what I understand of the aGPL, this licence protects you and your investments as no matter what happen to the entity that "owns" civi, you are granted an irrevocable right to use, improve and re-distribute the code. Moreover, any exemption to that aGPL rule should be mentioned. Without such mention, or mention that someone has the right to grant such exemption, I doubt it will ever be possible. The exception to that being the api: if you have a software that uses civcrm API, you don't have to be under aGPL, but should as soon as you use a hook (INAL).

As for civi open source credentials, that's one of the more "truly" free software project I've seen, have a look at the forum/wiki/book/IRC to get a sense of the community or better come to the next civicon if they are still some places.

As you might be aware, the Free Software Foundation has started using and is recommending it for NGOs http://www.fsf.org/news/nonprofit-fundraising-civicrm

Having RMS giving his blessing to civi should be able to reassure about everyone about how truly free software this project is.

I've had the pleasure of meeting most of people working for civicrm and their actions are in line with their values to support free software and have been since the start of the project. I'd be really (really) surprised if Dave or Lobo go all Oracle on Civi, but in the very unlikely event it happens, the community is big enough to change the name, fork the base code and keep going. For the record, I'm against CiviJenkins as the name ;)

X+

« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 01:19:51 am by xavier »
-Hackathon and data journalism about the European parliament 24-26 jan. Watch out the result

peterp

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Re: Is Civicrm owned commercially or by a non-profit?
February 24, 2011, 07:00:31 am
Xavier, thank you for your prompt response.  All very valid points.  From reading the site information its clear the leadership and owners have demonstrated the best of intentions, however there are many open-source projects that have been commercially influenced.  Take SugarCRM for example; there is a limited community version but a more prominent and powerful commercial version.  New features released by the copyright holders (a commercial organization) are contributed to the commercial variant, not the community version - Will that be the model for CiviCRM ? 

Our concern is that having a commercial entity (ie, David Greenberg) own the license, he can be commercially influenced at the expense of the community.  Also, anyone who makes a code contribution does so under the Academic Free License, not GPL so CiviCRM LLC can effectively own / commercialize it.  There are countless examples of open-source projects changing direction due to commercial influences.

There are many scenarios that could  dramatically change the future of CiviCRM if the ownership is held with a commercial entity.  That is not to say that commercialization is a bad thing, but "free", "open-source" can be quite misleading and ambiguous.  The copyright owner is the only one who can distribute his own work under any other license, if he wishes, regardless of having distributed a version under the GPL.

While you are right that the community could "fork" a version of the code, it would still be bound by the AGPL license, would not be able to use the CiviCRM trademark and wouldn't have the leadership, financial support, and infrastructure that the current group has.  Its very unlikely that a fork would be successful.

Ultimately, we are seeking transparency as part of a due diligence effort.  If the copyright were transferred to the Free Software Foundation as suggested in the mentioned forum post, we would have greater confidence that its future and leadership would be in the best interest of the community.

Donald Lobo

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Re: Is Civicrm owned commercially or by a non-profit?
February 24, 2011, 05:40:04 pm

hey peter:

Quote from: peterp on February 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
1. In the About section, there is mention of the 501c3 non-profit Social Source Foundation.  Apparently the copyright ownership is owned by David Greenberg as CiviCRM LLC. Can you please confirm this is accurate? What is the role of the Social Source Foundation?

Yes, CiviCRM LLC owns the copyright of the code that it contributes (which has been a large majority of the current codebase). We are moving away from using SSF, primarily to avoid going afoul of various IRS rules and regulations. Note that any work that CiviCRM LLC does is explicitly based on using the AGPL license

Quote from: peterp on February 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
2. I found a discussion on your site http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/topic,12958.msg55651.html#msg55651 which indicates an intention to migrate to the license to a non-profit entity.  Has such migration taken place? If not, is it planned?

The migration has not yet taken place, but migrating the copyright to an entity is definitely still on the plate. Its just not super high on the priority list currently (more due to time considerations than anything else).

Quote from: peterp on February 23, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
3. Have you provided any exceptions to the current AGPL such as allowing a company to use the software without distributing source code? Do you disclose any commercial arrangements involving civicrm?

No (and if someone is doing so, it is without our permission!).  If we ever do this, I do hope that we will disclose and discuss with the community before doing so. However note that, we now accept contributions with licenses compatible with GPL v2 or later, which basically does mean that we cannot relicense those parts of the code base

Note that the project is still experimenting with sustainability models and how to continue our frenetic pace of development / releases. Things are evolving quite nicely (Make It Happen, CiviCon, Trainings etc) and i suspect we'll also clear the "copyright" issue in due time.

We do try to be as transparent as possible, so feel free to ask more questions :)

lobo
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  • Is Civicrm owned commercially or by a non-profit?

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