Author Topic: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense? (Read 2468 times)

clarkac · November 21, 2013, 09:12:32 pm

My client, a small non-profit has little or no system support at present. They have contacts in the low thousands. They have been previously convinced that they should install Mailchimp, and also think that CiviCRM will suit them So, they are planning to install CiviCRM together with Mailchimp to do the mailing. To me, this makes no sense, simply because Civi can do most of what Mailchimp does. To start off by designing in an interface problem between Civi and Mailchimp is a mistake, in my view. I guess there are some advantages with Mailchimp, in that there will be more pre-formatted templates but I can't see that advantage overcoming the disadvantage of having what is essentially 2 contact systems with the problems of keeping them in sync.

Comments please? Am I underestimating Mailchimp?

Coleman Watts · November 21, 2013, 09:16:47 pm

I agree on principle, but it's also true that MC has a nicer UI. If the usability of CiviMail is a dealbreaker for them, then using MC isn't the end of the world. There is even an integration module which might help with the data sync problem, but I've heard mixed reports about how well it works.

xavier · November 21, 2013, 10:46:41 pm

Hi,

One option might be to use MC for the template and prepare the mailing and copy paste the result and do the real sending with civi.

Syncing between two tools is hard, but sometimes easier than changing people views

jaapjansma · November 22, 2013, 01:24:27 am

I have done some integration of Mailchimps into other software and syncing Mailchimp and CiviCrM shouldn't be that hard. Both have very good api's so it is quite easy to keep both of them in sync. And yes you are storing contact information twice... but is that a problem if the systems keep in sync?

Personally I would say that Mailchimps features for sending mass mailings is better because they have very good data analyses tools and also their userinterface is easier (maybe not for IT geeks ;-)
But Civi is powerful too so rather than convincing I would go for the option your client likes and then use the best of the two worlds, combining the strengths!

Michael McAndrew · November 22, 2013, 01:53:30 am

Hey there,

Some thoughts from my experience in this area...

I always like to weigh up the costs of having two seperate systems against the costs of integrating (which can be easy to forget).

if they had an already existing mailchimp that they were happy with, i would say let them continue with it for the minute, do the othe stuff, and integrate mailchimp when the time comes (it would be easy to transfer the list over). in this instance, you are saying they are not using it yet, so slightly different but you could take the same approach to the project.

one question you will want to ask is what are you going to benefit from the integration? are you going to be sending a single newsletter? if so, then the integration isn't that important. if you are sending multiple newsletters based on different preferences of data in civicrm, then it becomes more important (but often that is just a possibility until you have at least a decent amount of data in civicrm on which to base the search).

one thing you don't want to do is stop people from using a shiny system they love and make them use a less shiny system. You could always start off using both and then say: OK, you want to do a mailing based on XYZ complex criteria? Might be better to do this in CiviCRM. Here is how you do it. It's a bit more fiddly but might be worth the effort. They can then make the call based on their real life experience of the + and - of both. Which means they have made an informed decision based on the facts (including how comfortable they feel with CiviMail).

Donald Lobo · November 22, 2013, 06:07:17 am

in case u are not aware, there is this extension:

https://civicrm.org/extensions/mailchimp-sync

lobo

Owen · November 22, 2013, 10:11:44 am

Quote from: Michael McAndrew on November 22, 2013, 01:53:30 am

Hey there,

Some thoughts from my experience in this area...

I always like to weigh up the costs of having two seperate systems against the costs of integrating (which can be easy to forget).

if they had an already existing mailchimp that they were happy with, i would say let them continue with it for the minute, do the othe stuff, and integrate mailchimp when the time comes (it would be easy to transfer the list over). in this instance, you are saying they are not using it yet, so slightly different but you could take the same approach to the project.

one question you will want to ask is what are you going to benefit from the integration? are you going to be sending a single newsletter? if so, then the integration isn't that important. if you are sending multiple newsletters based on different preferences of data in civicrm, then it becomes more important (but often that is just a possibility until you have at least a decent amount of data in civicrm on which to base the search).

one thing you don't want to do is stop people from using a shiny system they love and make them use a less shiny system. You could always start off using both and then say: OK, you want to do a mailing based on XYZ complex criteria? Might be better to do this in CiviCRM. Here is how you do it. It's a bit more fiddly but might be worth the effort. They can then make the call based on their real life experience of the + and - of both. Which means they have made an informed decision based on the facts (including how comfortable they feel with CiviMail).

+1 some great advice there. Speaking as someone who has moved people from Mailchimp to Civimail.

Lobo, I don't think that extension works.

P.S almost finished an alternative UI for Civimail, IMO it's nicer and almost impossible to break templates.

clarkac · November 22, 2013, 10:16:19 am

Thanks all for some really helpful advice & thoughts on this. This is one of those times, amongst many, when the forum really works!

petednz · November 22, 2013, 11:47:57 am

"almost finished an alternative UI for Civimail, IMO it's nicer and almost impossible to break templates" - look forward to the blog if this is shareable (bit rich coming from me who is sooo far behind blogging about our contributions)

sonicthoughts · November 22, 2013, 01:02:30 pm

For me - It boils down to usability, skill set and templates/tools. Most small organizations have a single person running a lot of functions. If they have not fully embraced civi but are using it for a few functions then you should strongly consider using a 3rd party tool like mailchimp (probably the easiest/highest value). Note that marketing tools like this do a lot more than just send email. they have many templates, spam detection, and most of all - very good delivery scores. Mailchimp also does a lot of 3rd party integration that may be useful.
For many organizations this is the best approach, and best practice is to often integrate a service like this with a CRM (sugarcrm, salesforce, etc.)

The problem is integration. The civicrm-mailchimp extension - which is the second implementation that i'm aware of - is not quite complete, nor is it widely adopted. If this is set up properly it can provide two paths for mail that does not require getting the contacts / groups out of sync. This would be an excelent choice if we can get it stable and supporting 4.4.

The obvious downside of a 3rd party tool is the lack of integration and tokens. This is where I see the power in civicrm but unfortunately many users do not see it at first.

The ideal scenario for me is to support a 3rd party service like mailchimp, integrate well with civicrm (groups, opt-outs, subscribes) and as the system matures migrate to a full-civicrm implementation using a 3rd party transport like Amazon SMS, civismtp, etc.

In real-world usage, sending out a mass-email is stressful, urgent and requires high-touch. Forcing a user with the wrong skill set to use civicrm can lead to a lot of urgent-support headaches that you may want to avoid.

Owen · November 23, 2013, 03:24:00 am

@petednz Will do. Needs a couple of tweaks and some real world testing first. Might try and package some responsive templates too.

petednz · November 26, 2013, 03:08:49 pm

we may be able to line up some testers for you ;-)

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Author Topic: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense? (Read 2468 times)

clarkac

Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

Coleman Watts

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

xavier

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

jaapjansma

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

Michael McAndrew

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

Donald Lobo

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

Owen

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

clarkac

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

petednz

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

sonicthoughts

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

Owen

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?

petednz

Re: Does CiviCRM and Mailchimp together make sense?