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  • CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
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Author Topic: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?  (Read 7141 times)

dcrane

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CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
June 27, 2009, 01:42:27 pm
Standalone because frankly I dislike the constraints of Drupal.  In particular I despise the directory structure and the straight jacket it puts on page developers. So I'm looking at CiviCRm Standalone for a small non-profit organization. 

CiviCRM seems to have all the features we need, but it really gets low marks for simplicity.  The mailer, for example, is terribly overblown.  The code suffers from featuritis.  And documentation at the user level is non-existent. Before jumping into it, I would like to see it from the viewpoint of our volunteers.  The demo is useless because it's currently set in German with no apparent way to change it.

What about logging in?  Is it true that before a new visitor to our web site can sign up as a volunteer, they have to have an OpenID?  If so, that is an enormous turn off. Actually, it's more like "stupid."  We aren't going to get any volunteers if they have screw around just to log in or be computer literate to begin with.

What other warnings do I need to know about?  So far, my 40 years of computer experience is raising a lot of red flags.

Donald Lobo

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
June 28, 2009, 10:29:11 pm

standalone does need open-id. Considering your impression of drupal and early impression of civicrm, you might be better off with some other package

lobo
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dcrane

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
June 28, 2009, 10:43:08 pm
Other packages?  There are none.  Mambo has Drupal drawbacks but no CiviCRM.  The only current solution is to use BOTH Drupal and CiviCRm but ignore the Drupal software management system where possible and put up with the rampant featuritis of civiCRM.

I would LOVE to find an alternative.

Donald Lobo

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
June 29, 2009, 01:49:31 am

might help if you are a bit more helpful with regard to civicrm in specific and open source software in general. makes it easier for us to support folks who kinda do their part and are more understanding

with regard to drupal and civicrm featuritis if you are more specific we can try to explain. if you are looking to add features to make it more useful ping us on irc

lobo
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dcrane

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
June 29, 2009, 10:38:55 am
This non-profit takes care of abandoned cemeteries using volunteer labor and city refuse trucks.  They need a focal point for volunteers and financial supporters to log in.  Calendar of cleanup days, board meetings, etc., preferably w/signups.  Record of who worked where and when for annual awards. On-line donations and annual memberships. Member mailing list.

Need to make it as simple as possible both for the members and for the folks running the non-profit.  Very little computer savvy.

CiviCRM is the only thing I have found. Cannot reasonably expect people to sign up using the standalone. Can use Drupal if it avoids the difficult log in. Ideally, existing web site conversion should be minimized.  Don't care to use any Drupal CMS screens except for the absolute minimum.

Erik Hommel

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 01, 2009, 11:32:28 pm
Just reading this post in my "go through the unread posts" time.......I would advise you to be a little (or a lot) more friendly and respectful. I will guarantee you people love to help you here (and everywhere in the world) but a lot of people tend to become far less helpfull if you try to kick them in their nuts in advance.
Consultant/project manager at EEatWork and CiviCooP (http://www.civicoop.org/)

dcrane

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 02, 2009, 04:49:55 am
So you are saying that people love Drupal and CiviCRM so much that they can't see the short-comings - much less discuss them?  Sounds like politics, not technology.  Anyone who feels "kicked in the nuts" should take a second look.  It's very difficult to see how that response makes sense.

Denver Dave

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 09, 2009, 06:16:26 pm
Your post reminds me of one of my first posts where I couldn't understand why I had to install Drupal to run CiviCRM.  Basically people laughed at me with the reason being (I think) that the size of the programs and complications of running CiviCRM make the Dupal code somewhat irrelevant.  

For example, the extract directory size for a Drupal 6.13 is 4.55 MB with 465 files, however the extract file size for CiviCRM 2.2.7 is 52.3 MB with 5,463 files.   Other than being aware that Drupal probably has a lot of potential that we are not using, we just installed Drupal and forgot about it and concentrated on CiviCRM issues.   .... and yes, we do wander around lost in the directory structure - sort of like the old Dungeons and Dragons where each set of twisty passages sort of look alike.  Why 55 MB of CiviCRM scripts are needed - I can't even begin to guess.  Just uploading the CiviCRM files to the server with my Comcast cable connection is no small task and involves doing many attempts with groups of folders - just deleting all the files took more time on the server than writing this post (clearing out for 2.2.7 test)

I'm not sure if this helps, but I really don't think your evaluation of whether CiviCRM is appropriate for you will be determined by the Joomla or Drupal launch pad.

I do agree that I have not found an opensource application similar to CiviCRM.  We started by looking at PHPLists as an email system and quickly realized that what we needed was not an email system, but a contact management or constituent management system.  

We are asking a lot from CiviCRM.  We run on a shared host with 55 CiviCRM administrators (not all are active) and a half dozen people sending CiviMails.  With our 6,000 contacts, our database now has a million records with the transaction records that we're not sure how to prune and we are seriously trying to use the Contribution and Membership modules to be the detail for our member accounting.  Quite a lot to ask from a program to send out a few emails.  

Our goals are ambitious also - to reform the US Health Care System - if you care to help, please get involved with the single-payer universal health care advocates in your state.  If you do not live in the US, you'd better get busy, the for-profit health insurance industry wants your country to be like the US and maximize their profits.

Dave
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 06:35:23 pm by Denver Dave »

johnp

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 13, 2009, 03:05:28 pm
While I'm sure nobody here would shy away from any heated discourse regarding the values of Drupal, I have to agree that a more tactful approach would likely result in more positive responses.

I do believe that some type of local authentication in the standalone version would be great. As I have little or no money to support such an endeavor, I would find it hard to complain.

With local authentication, a user could utilize CiviCRM as a portable data store. I think it would be awesome to have the power of this software to maintain data regardless of internet connectivity.

JMHO,

John

dcrane

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 13, 2009, 03:53:52 pm
Quote from: johnp on July 13, 2009, 03:05:28 pm
With local authentication, a user could utilize CiviCRM as a portable data store. I think it would be awesome to have the power of this software to maintain data regardless of internet connectivity.
What is it about CiviCRM that requires Internet connectivity?  I know Drupal can be installed locally and I had assumed that was true of CiviCRM.

lcdweb

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 21, 2009, 10:14:28 pm
dcrane --
I'll echo Erik and John -- no one here is afraid of constructive criticism, but the tone of your original and subsequent posts *really* does not make people want to help you. No one is forcing you to use CiviCRM. To walk in the door and start firing a verbal shotgun really isn't helpful to anyone. There are plenty of other CRM alternatives out there if this one doesn't suit your needs.

To answer your last question -- Civi can be run on a local web server unless you're running standalone, because you need access to OpenID for authentication. If Civi is run with either Drupal or Joomla, it can be run entirely without internet access if desired. Civi does not handle authentication -- it uses the CMS or OpenID.
support CiviCRM through 'make it happen' initiatives!
http://civicrm.org/mih

cornopean

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
August 06, 2009, 11:47:32 am
Hold up....let's talk about universal health care!!!   ;D ;D

Richard416282

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Re: CiviCRM standalone. Any drawbacks?
July 19, 2011, 02:21:31 am
Quote from: lcdweb on July 21, 2009, 10:14:28 pm
dcrane --
There are plenty of other CRM alternatives out there if this one doesn't suit your needs.

Hi lcdweb:
WHat specifically did you mean to refer to with the above ? I have tried to find anything remotely close to CiviCRM for Campaign Management that is Open, REdily available and does not cost $2.00 CAD per contact.

Can you point me to any suggestions other than CIviCRM on Drupal. I am trying to get a One-User System on a USB stick, but no luck so far. Started fumbling with XAMPP but its a learning Curve. Thanks -R. ::)
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