Is Return Path needed with CiviMail Processor?

[myles]

My impression reading through the various methods of handling the return channel is that the field Return_Path in Mail Account settings is only needed when using older methods such as IMAP2SOAP; and that it is not needed by the currently supported CiviMail Processor -

Could anyone confirm that for me please, I'm learning a gizzilion things a once at the moment, and it would be brilliant to have something handed on a plate!

Many thanks

[Piotr Szotkowski]

The default Mail Settings’ Return Path field is being read when our mailing system checks whether it ought to set the Return-Path header of outgoing emails to something particular.

The logic is this: when CRM_Utils_Mail::send() receives an email to send, it checks the default Mail Settings entry for the Return Path contents; if it’s not there, it copies the email address from the From: header.

[Piotr Szotkowski]

I also added an issue with multi-domain installs to fix for CiviCRM 3.1, which might be related to others who find this thread, so noting it here: multi-domain install cannot have different Return Path headers.

[myles]

Thank you both,

When setting up a mailing we are asked if we want to override the VERP (step 3 of the wizard)

I quote from the help:

"If this box is checked, the automatically generated VERP address in the Reply-To will be overriden by the From email address specified above. Consult with your site administrator before using this feature as it may affect handling of bounced emails and replies."

From what you are saying if I don't give a return path, then the system will use the From email address... Is that the VERP address?

Am I relating two different things that should not be related?

[Piotr Szotkowski]

I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear on the (non-trivial) way we do things. We have two workflows for sending emails in CiviCRM – one is for CiviMail (mass-mailings), the other is for one-off emails (for example: the ‘send email to contact’, or sending emails to contacts in a search result).

The latter, which uses CRM_Utils_Mail::send(), creates the Return-Path: header from the civicrm_mail_settings table’s contents (falling back to the email address in From: header), as I wrote before.

CiviMail mass-mailings, which you ask about above, do not use CRM_Utils_Mail::send(), but rather call the mailer-of-choice’s send() method directly (in CRM_Mailing_BAO_Job::deliverGroup()). As the Return-Path: header can be very helpful, so we set it to the per-addressee, generated-on-the-fly bounce email address; this way bounces on the SMTP level, which are directed to the Return-Path: address, can be handled properly (i.e., we know which contact is bouncing).

I’m not sure whether we allow for the Return-Path: header of CiviMail’s emails to be altered; from a quick look at CRM_Mailing_BAO_Mailing::getVerpAndUrlsAndHeaders() we always set it to the VERP-ed bounce address.

[pdowling]

Piotr,

I'm just getting started and managed to get my first civimail (mass mailing sent out) (to myself!).  Note I didn't use the "Test" feature in the wizard as I understand that just uses the 'send email to contact' route.

So my question - where would I see the "Return-Path" header in the email that goes out from civimail?  I opened the mail in my client (Evolution) and did a View all headers, but I don't see anything that says "Return-Path".

I'm guessing this is a really dumb question.  But I'm the kind of person who needs to see exactly what is happening to understand it.

Thanks...

[pdowling]

Hmm,

Actually after stumbling on this thread for another reason...

http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/topic,10104.0.html

...namely trying to figure out how civimail is processing mail from the return inbox I went ahead and turned on SMTP debugging at which point I was able to see the "Return-Path" header.  So you learn something new every day.  "Return-Path" header doesn't show up in the View Source in the email client (at least not in Evolution).

Unfotunately the above linked thread didn't answer my other question about how civimail processes the return inbox (to process unsub, replys, etc.), but I'll address that elsewhere.

[pdowling]

Oh, one more thing (for the first poster).

I tested doing a true civimail mailing both with a return-path and with return-path blank (default).

With smtp debugging on I compared the result of both and the return-path clearly didn't have any affect on the email sent (as far as I could see).

[Piotr Szotkowski]

The Return-Path: header is required when there are certain security limitations in the mail server – these limitations might not apply in your case (or your mail server might not enforce them for emails it receives from localhost).

[Piotr Szotkowski]

Ah, one more thing: the Return-Path: is often set to the same header as the SMTP envelope’s RCPT TO header, which we use to track hard bounces (the ones that happen during the SMTP part of email sending).

[kim.e.marcus]

I am using 1&1 Servers to host Drupal and CiviCRM files for our website.  However, the email client is GoogleApps with Postini Services activated.  What I would like to do is send out our local Newsletter through CiviMail with the optout action included in the email.  I am not clear on what return-path to enter in the Administer CiviCRM-->CiviMail--> Mail Accounts web page. 

I had the server set to smtp.gmail.com then I tried psmtp.com, however the return path is the account I try testing it from.

Return-Path: <kdmarcus+caf_=kim.e.marcus=gmail.com@mpdci.org>

I want the return path to go into our google.apps email account so I tried using catchall@mpdci.org as the send from email in the above page...

Please help...I am confused reading everything...and even tried the option to pay someone...with no luck

Thanks!

[Donald Lobo]

what happens if u leave it blank? it should work for the most part, IMO

lobo

[kim.e.marcus]

Thank you for the response. 

I removed catchall@mpdci.org from the return path settings and then tried a mailing....

The test mail went fine.  However, when I clicked on the unsubscribe link in the email a new email window opened up with the following address in the To: civimail+admin@mpdci.orgu.33.99.25990fe794f7dfac@mpdci.org

I tried to email to this address and recevied an error message that the email address was not formatted correctly.

[Donald Lobo]

most likely you have another token right in front of the unsubscribe token. make sure you include a space there

also your mailserver will need to have a catchall account that mail can be sent to (i.e. u.* gets delivereed to the catchall account)

lobo

[Piotr Szotkowski]

As Lobo says, the email is being built incorrectly for some reason. That said, if you have a Google email account (I’m sure it work with Gmail, so I guess it should with other Google mail offers) and you create a civimail@example.org address, then any email sent to civimail+u.33.99.25990fe794f7dfac@example.org should be delivered to that account (as the + sign means just an extension to an existing account).